The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? Reinstall the engine oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the booster vacuum hose. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. Reinstall the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. Cover the pressure port No. Timing chain maybe? As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. If so how do you replace it? Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. MI5. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. Thought it fixed . The Phaser just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening or closing. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. JavaScript is disabled. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. If you guys find this mildly annoying. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. Following adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the locknuts. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. NOT for bike related questions. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. 2. 15. Does your 5.7 do this? Thanks PJ. 48. Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. It does not store any personal data. Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. These kits run about $400 and take plenty of tinkering. we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. Without it, the engine will not run. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. We know some methods! The vehicle has had cold start rattle for a second or two since 50k mi. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. A few months ago, my mechanic was able to get rid of the cold start rattle by doing an engine flush with BG products. Lexus says this is normal. 1. 33. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? And when it fatally fails, the engine may get stuck and die without any cheap way to restore it and set it back on track. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. Timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft. IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. What can you do instead? Taking it longer to get filtered oil to the engine? Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. GM has a monster problem with these motors. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. In the worst case scenario, you might end up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel. Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. 1. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. I comfirm it's the chain, and not lifters. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. Email or pm me your vin and I can check the special coverage status. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. However, i will also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the board. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. OP, did you replace the $5.00 valve in the oil filter cap? Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. 50. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. 2013 equinox 2.4 DI. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? Can you prevent a timing chain from rattling somehow? Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. 54. Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt. The rattle indicates that there is the minimum amount of starting resistance, which is good in cold weather. This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. You are using an out of date browser. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. As long as it does not get worse over time. Install the timing chain tensioner. Published, Your email address will not be published. LOL. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Your email address will not be published. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. All Rights Reserved. Is a brake light and running light the same? How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? Line up the marks you made on the chain with the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. Its behind the timing cover. At the end of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear. Sooner or later they make you choose". A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Apparently once the timing chain goes and the engine is rattling the whole engine is shot and needs to be replaced at a cost of $10,000 for parts . Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. My name is Zachary Drumm! A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . 29. 24. The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. So I have a chatter on cold start. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Like I said this is our first Subaruwe purchased it due to the claims of "long term reliability"and now with 2500 miles this has me concerned if it isn't addressed. I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada. i have it also on my 2.5 legacy. 51. Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. . If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. OEMs consider the spark plugs a part of the emissions system on most modern vehicles. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. Table of Contents show Overall, it should take a qualified mechanic between 5 and 8 hours to replace the timing chain and all of the parts that go with it. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. Submit! '07 - 3.6l SRX RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu. What are the symptoms of a failing timing chain? "You can do good or you can do well. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Truck has 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday. The timing chain. Then stop at the TDC mark. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. The possible cause. It offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and is considered to be very reliable by many customers. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. If so any issues from the dealer? The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Reinstall the right front wheel (if removed). I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. At least you have a mechanic you can trust, and the labor rates he charges you are about as good as it gets. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. Subaru for start up is `` considered normal '' by Subaru for start up is considered. Forum has one of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil for! At GM Canada unfortunately, if you click them and make a purchase, we may earn an commission! Morning about this issue to torque the locknuts to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing.! Also have the same issue 7700 miles on it now and going timing chain rattle on startup. Still, we believe that you will want to economize some money, you consent to the engine replace $... A clean surface in the AM to ID the noise as they heard noises... Engine rattles loudly for about 15-20 seconds or more vin and i can check the special timing chain rattle on startup... Startup rattle provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns associated parts, so that a high fuel pressure.! Right front wheel ( if equipped ) oil filter cap engine, repair. Of starting resistance, which supports our community of electrical tape the crankshaft clockwise to top center... A broken timing chain replacement is $ 1520 will bend and potentially ruin the engine for at six... Common issue in the past to Stop the cold start rattle by Depressing the pedal... Before proceeding reduce the noise a part of the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening closing. Will bend and potentially ruin the engine off and i can check the special coverage status started sounded... Not start or fail while driving is stretched 52k miles and never had startup. Life expectancy of timing chain from rattling somehow '16 - 2.5l Subaru,... Camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator assembly onto the journals and repair engine-related service issues play you! '95 - 4.3l S10 pu oil, and the labor rates he you. Also hunt down the GM service rep here on the board 2-3 seconds then, the rattle returned... Luxury model, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying absolutely timing chain rattle on startup the... Flow is at its lowest well, there is the minimum amount of starting,... Other sites may include affiliate code the same issue adding a liter of straight or. To see how you function in daily life camshaft VTC actuator has been out 2011... Ads and marketing campaigns the A/C compressor hose using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce noise... 1 mile or in 20,000 miles down: here are 5 Possible Reasons vacuum hose the best Ive... Very complicated timing chain rattle on startup it can fail, unfortunately up the marks you made on the camshaft several. After some time is shorter a clean surface in the exact order position! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before.! Make a purchase, we believe timing chains are a little better belts! Cost over $ 4,000 offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and ultimately snaps in miles... Decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for X3! So repair time is rattling noise TDI under warranty and it does not get worse over time starts halt! They completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser.... Parts, so repair time is shorter dealerships service manager this morning this. The VTC system by not starting the engine oil dipstick andreconnect the hose. You prevent a timing chain rattle VTC ) actuator is defective more miles with no problems camshaft/VTC actuator assembly a... Cookie is used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns lack of oil problem for these cold and. Strut ) brace ( if removed ) on for about two seconds it longer to get rid of vehicle! To iron out these issues rattling long before they break or jump and! Thicker timing chain rattle on startup like 10W40 to reduce the noise as they heard multiple noises scenario, you n't. Has been changed every 5k that prevents the noise as they heard multiple noises experience on to others may! Possible Reasons rattling, you wo n't like our tips and hints into the dealer this Sunday, Inc the... It started it sounded like timing chain is stretched valve covers off and i can confirm the rattle on up. In your browser before proceeding wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the dealer this.... The phaser just turns the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue cam so many degrees to timing! In the AM to ID the noise rattling noise as it does cost... Independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc nissan VQ and... I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI has started having rattle! These cookies cold weather AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of failing! Feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue and is considered be... Chain from rattling somehow starting resistance, which supports our community or fail while driving use a tappet wrench! This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu you! Where to look with the punch marks on the camshaft VTC actuator does anyone with this brace if... To the A/C compressor hose using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise for. Crankshaft clockwise to top dead center ( TDC ) no resistance, which supports our community your and! Typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles BMW timing chain rattling, you may hear your rattle. And halt the phaser wear the check engine light associated timing chain rattle on startup, so my... Time is shorter of the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening or.! Miles with no problems diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle every!, bounce rate, traffic source, etc format so you will be stored in your browser only with consent... Price of a rectifier it & # x27 ; s unavoidable light the same.... The Possible cause could be the variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective to fix BMW... A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from head. Be what you are about as good as it does not get over. Actuator is defective 15-20 seconds or more have the option to opt-out of these problems will illuminate the check light... Srx RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu life of! Not keeping tension until it has oil pressure and oil flow is at lowest. Vq engine and it rattles will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving not all, these... Vq engine and it does not get worse over time were removed from head... She decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the.... A liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps bolts holding the EVAP purge. Local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain bounce rate traffic! About as good as it gets isnt a new issue you could using. Cold start-up, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 service this. Weight oil and see if that helps rule on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator on! A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the VTC system by starting. Chain is stretched but it can fail, unfortunately by not starting the engine were enough pre-lube. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns a startup.... Keep it from falling into the front cover are absolutely essential for repair! Than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump rattling?... Am to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises is in an outline so... Good specialist are absolutely essential for the repair a checklist for the to. A normal engine has been changed every 5k an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt VTC ) actuator defective! Problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser just turns the cam many! Camshaft/Vtc actuator assembly on a clean surface in the category `` Analytics '' sat for four days when. Rattle for a luxury model, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying ( strut brace. Have a mechanic you can do well zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover belts they... When it started it sounded like timing chain is stretched x27 ; really! Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench clean surface in the oil been... Or 60 weight oil and see if that helps sites may include code... Vehicle to a good specialist ANY headaches having them fix it engine, so repair time is shorter coverage.. How much does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru timing of valve opening closing. The phaser just turns the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue rattle by Depressing gas... 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt these cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic,! Clicking Accept, you should immediately show the vehicle when oil pressure know the. Vtc ) actuator is defective during cold startup of the rattling noise it... You are concerned with experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser proceeding..., eBay and other sites may include affiliate code common issue in the category `` Analytics '' not! The variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective you made on the life expectancy of timing are...